What does it mean to give back to WordPress? Cory and David discuss this and other themes from Matt Mullenweg’s 2021 State of the Word.

In this episode of Post Status Excerpt, Cory shares his experience among the 30+ individuals who attended the State of the Word in New York in person. David and Cory talk about how Matt presented himself, his views on the necessary ratio of community contributions to open source projects, Five for the Future, the next generation of leaders, and what it means to give back to the community and WordPress core.

Also: Cory hints at what Post Status will be doing in 2022 when it comes to giving back — along with how Post Status will encourage and assist people in contributing to the WordPress community.

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David Bisset: [00:00:00] Since I wasn’t there because as I was telling somebody earlier, I couldn’t, hurt my Twitter game by being there. I had to be in front of my computer with with my keyboards and making a bingo games and hashtag 

Cory Miller: that’s my fondest memories of you, David is like going to these events and somebody live tweeting.

It’s like, here’s this dimension media person. And it’s like, holy crap. 

David Bisset: Yeah. They used to call me dementia media. So. 

Cory Miller: Signature though is still in the lodge waiting. And I remember when Twitter kind of first came out and it was a thing to live tweet a lot. And but I always like yours because you always summarize what.

The takeaway is like you’re starring the cool quotes along the way. And that’s part of what we’re trying to do at post status is give you the too long, didn’t read content, the inside analysis commentary for the stuff that matters to you. So that’s your claim to fame or friend? 

David Bisset: Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that’s how I took notes and I really didn’t care who listened. I that’s how I just took [00:01:00] notes. It kind of knocked off a couple of killed a couple birds with one stone, but enough about me. Let’s. Let’s talk about you being there in person. And can you tell me where this place w what was this place like?

Was it in like a tall building or like, I hear it was tumblers all the offices or something. 

Cory Miller: So my understanding was it’s the automatics new event space in New York city. And of course, some of their investors in New York city and things like that. And it was incredible space. I would try to guess how big of a space it was.

David Bisset: I couldn’t tell, the camera angles were just, they did the camera angles just right. So you never got a true dimension of the room on the live stream

 yeah, that’s 

Cory Miller: what I just said. I do more tell me I bet you it’s about 15,000 to 20,000 square feet in there that I saw really great space. And it’s a whole floor of a billion is my understanding, but it was gorgeous.

And then there’s the sunset of New York city out the window rep for state of the word. And it was really good, but I. I, you know, I got to see [00:02:00] Matt about a month ago and San Francisco, we got to talk and he mentioned inviting you David, to stay the word. And also he’d love to have Post Status there. So I was like, yes, we’re going to make that happen.

I know you had things that come up, you couldn’t be there. But you know, I want to guess there’s about 25 30 people there in person. And it was a really nice night. I mean, automatic. Rolled out the carpet for all of us, which is super nice. Matt as always is a charming, elegant presenter and host and did a fantastic job.

I thought it was normal. You know, I want to give him kudos, but like, he’s really good on stage. 

David Bisset: Well he was different this time and I realized I wasn’t in the room, but I almost had, I have a 30 inch monitor. So I saw a lot of him and I saw a lot of his facial expressions pretty clearly. There was there was something different about them in a good way.

And I can’t, I think he, you know, not just not to put emotions on a person, I’m pretty sure he was nervous in some regard. I think anybody is nervous to some extent of public speaking, but he definitely had some sort of [00:03:00] energy that he was releasing. And you know, me, I record animated gifs all the time.

I decided not to post, I don’t know what I decided to post, but in the very beginning before he was kind of. He was almost dancing a jig right before way before the state of the word started up on stage. So he was really excited and really, you know, anxious maybe, but you could just see the energy even before he spoke anything.

You could just see the pent up energy that he had, which was reflected later, by the way. 

Cory Miller: And not trying to speak for him, but if for me, I go, I haven’t done this in two years. There’s some cool people here that I have invited to be here and I’m talking about the thing that I want to spend all of my life doing.

And so. Yeah, totally. I spoke a couple of weeks ago at our three recurring revenue retreat. And I remember getting feeling nervous cause I’m like I was rusty, you know? And there was this quote and I’m trying to remember what it was, but it’s basically turning fear, the anxiety into [00:04:00] energy and excitement.

And that’s what I tried to do is like channel that’s now Matt doesn’t need my public speaking tips, but those are my thoughts. What I. As long as I’ve known him. And it goes back to 2008, where camp DFW in Frisco, Texas. There’s one thing that’s always standard with Matt and that is his passion for the WordPress open source project.

Yeah. So, you know, and it just has never wavered. And I think he mentioned on state of the word that he wants to spend the rest of his life. He’s 38 rest of this. On WordPress project. And I totally believe this. This is his contribution to humidity, you know, and at Post Status makers of the open web WordPress, this 42% of this big number that he shared out there, I think we should all take a moment, take a big deep breath and go.

The web is still in its infancy. I don’t know, life-stage wise where it would be comparatively to like a human, but it’s still early, like in history of all that’s going to happen in this world. In the future, the web is [00:05:00] still kind of an infant. And if you think about it, our place is WordPress makers.

People that build on WordPress, extend WordPress, teach WordPress, all that stuff people have. Post-test the business to WordPress is this is historic and what we’ve been doing. I started with WordPress, my first blog in 2006. That was just me using this amazing platform called WordPress, but, you know, history historically sake and going through.

42%, that number, it just keeps getting bigger. And that’s exciting for us, those of us that make our living with on for WordPress. 

David Bisset: Yeah, he did. I got a couple of quotes out of them and it was, you know, livestream is a little bit easier. Cause you can pause and rewind a little bit just to make sure, because you want to get it as close as possible. Regarding the The WordPress space.

He did say the court word press belongs. Just, you know, just to anybody it’s not just you or me it’s regardless of economic or political situations. And he said something about WordPress can’t be [00:06:00] created by just one company and people adding a line of code is like giving that, give a penny, take a penny and I feel like there’s quite a number of people that thanks to five for the future that are giving that he was, he actually said he actually gave a quote or something about, I don’t know if you caught it. He was studying other CMSs. And he said for every dollar that has made $20 has made in the ecosystem.

And that’s ratio is how they came up with the five for the future. Did you know that. I did not. 

Cory Miller: You know, I don’t know how long, far, because the future has been out, but there’s two things I wanted to highlight. Part of State of the Word you’ve just put a square in this one, which is contributing back to core five for the future.

I don’t know how long that’s been going, but, you know, I know our Post Status members. I mentioned this to Matt. They, you know, like me and I themes, we had, let’s say at her height, I want to say 27, 28 people or something like that. And you go, okay, how do we, excuse me, our team or company contribute to core.

We don’t have the profit bandwidth, all that stuff to take a full-time dev for instance 

David Bisset: right

Cory Miller: [00:07:00] off. And I mentioned this because I know there’s so many giving hearts in WordPress and founders and entrepreneurs and people that lead companies. That benefit from WordPress that want to do five for the future.

It’s tough. I get it from your standpoint of how do we meaningfully contributed, even though we believe we are contributing to the ecosystem or what we’re doing. And I grant that a hundred percent, what we want to do at Post Status though I did tag on the contributions that push to continue to contribute to core. 

I think that’s the reflective I dunno, KPI for the ecosystem too, by the way. But, and I know there’s companies that do it, even if it doesn’t fall under the strict banner of farm from feature or whatever it is that like, they’re doing it just like, we felt like we were contributing to WordPress for years.

What I want to do is translate that help that better for our Post Status crowd to, to actually meaningfully contribute. So Courtney Robertson on our team, who is also great, awesome person at Go Daddy pro is really [00:08:00] taking the banner for the contributor days for post status. So next year, we’re going to be talking about enrolling out contributor days, but that’s one thing to say, we’re going to do a contributor day, right?

That’s nothing new. This is where Courtney’s idea was. Let’s go to the team leads and ask for their wishlist. Things they would love for people of post status to contribute. And from that gives us something that we can go. Let’s say we take that day eight hours. And we’re going to show up for contributor today. at Post Status, were gonna, make it a contribute and then pick something off the board.

So we’re already trying to help you do a little thinking in the stuff that’s going to be most valuable to the core team, core teams that are doing things, and then say pick one off the list and try to get as far as you can. You know, and I’m excited about that. I know it’s very meaningfully and for good reason to Matt, both as CEO of automatic, but also the leader of the WordPress open source project.

And that was one thing that for sure came out, you know, to me in that call.

David Bisset: Yeah. There, [00:09:00] there was quite a bit talk about, there was talk about the contributors earlier in the live stream. And then afterwards it was how to get new and especially young people involved and you know, young people, they have so many distractions these days, but they have more time and they more energy.

Then we do cause we were running, families were running businesses and so forth like that. And I liked the question that Allie posed about. How can these people learn WordPress? But contributing I, you know, I, I lost my thought there for a second, but I really wanted to. I was hoping that the five for the future was going to spark some more ideas.

And I think it will, because if you have people that are, if companies are being sponsored or sponsoring people to work on contributing and there should be. Like an on-ramp in there somewhere for people who want to get into it too, because you know, like many people have pointed out. You have to, unless you’re a young person within, [00:10:00] with an inordinate amount of time, you don’t have the time to do that.

So even for a couple of hours, and I think part of five for the future, and some people have brought this, you know, written about it after state of the word. And about that five for the future, maybe someday five for the future can be expanded a bit to help some people not only contribute, but also kind of help them find people are willing to cover them so they can contribute whether that’s financially or some other means.

Or maybe it’s just some sort of internship if somebody is brand new and needs to be exposed to anything in WordPress. So I think five for the future is a great thing now, and I think it has got room to grow, but you know, it needs that it needs. Momentum of support right now and whether that’s the repost status and all these other methods, I think we’re still seeing the early stages of a comprehensive program for contributing.

Cory Miller: And I understand the apprehensions from companies and founders and leaders. You know, you have to make a [00:11:00] profit for sure. And you’re like, okay, I want to give back, but I, can’t just, I’m not a nonprofit, I’m a profit in enterprise and everything, and I want to help with them and contribute to these.

But something you mentioned just a second ago was pinged for my second thought. And when you said next generation, the no, our intern Here and has helping to post that by the way. But I also know your passion, heart for next generation with WordPress too. And it, that just brings up, well, one Sandy Edwards work with kids camp.

Talk to her about that a couple of weeks ago at our three, how post-test wants to contribute to that. But the other thing, the second theme is Gutenberg. You know, you can’t probably talk to Matt about WordPress without hearing Gutenberg and for good reason, here’s the thing. I was not a vocal advocate at all of ruling out Gutenberg in the way we did 

David Bisset: I like how politically, that was so eloquently put, but yes. 

Cory Miller: Yeah, I thought it was way early and everything, and it took me a year or two to finally [00:12:00] okay. You know, use Gutenberg and but it here’s the reality situation, no matter what, the way we feel about the past, it is here and it’s not going away.

So you hear this over and over from Matt and for good reasons, there’s some cool stuff coming. That he talked about the styles, some of the typical libraries. I see that as a very similar innovation and direction, that themes as a whole went when I started, I think back in 2008, There’s so much innovation to do.

So first and foremost, it’s here. We’ve got to accept it and move on. And I think what his plea here was too, and again, probably my nuance. It’s not, I’m not going to play, but I’m just saying my nuances. It’s not going away. We should accept it and embrace it. And then the question becomes, how do we improve that?

And I think our community can make considerable contribution. To the conversation and the actual implementation of Gutenberg, the block editor for WordPress. I’ll tell ya, I’m looking, I’m going to redo my [00:13:00] personal site cause I want to start blogging every day. And I say blogging, it’s going to be just sharing my thoughts.

Not just on Twitter, but you know, my site and I’m probably going to pig blank canvas. I’m still up in the air and I want to use. And I want to really like embrace using it and see what I, what my takeaways are. And I did that back in August with the click publish. I want to use Gutenberg because I’ve criss cross the threshold.

And for me, I’ll tell you the big benefit David was used to because no one even believes I’m ever been a developer. I’m not, but I was like 

David Bisset: Don’t be ashamed. I’m a programmer. I do websites. I do plug-ins. I do all of that. And what does Matt say to everybody that I am during state of the word?

I tweet a lot. So that’s my claim to fame. That’ll be on my tombstone where the developer, but you’re not a developer, but 

Cory Miller: I was looking for, I wanted to do a buy now button or something. You know, I just wanted to button and I can’t, I can [00:14:00] figure it out. I mean, I don’t want to figure out how to write a button coordination, or, CSS or whatever.

So I, what I normally would have done is went look for a plugin. I can’t remember. I want to say max plugins or something was that max buttons was out there as a plug in. Well, and I can’t remember what might’ve been AGA again. But it was like, that’s a block that was a game changer for me to go.

You don’t have to get something extra to do things you want to do in the post. That was pretty cool turning point for me. It’s not there. It’s getting better, this awesome people working on it. And I think we should. We can and should contribute to the conversation and the implementation once it gets going, because it’s not going away.

And back to your point about next generation Syed Balkhi that if you WP Beginner and awesome motive, I remember asking him a couple of years about Gutenberg. I was like I kind of expect he’s going to get on the bandwagon. Let me it’s like, we don’t like it. It shouldn’t be out there. And Syed was like, I love it.

I was like why? And he goes, because the next generation look at how people are [00:15:00] publishing today and it’s changed from what you and I learned now. He’s like, he’s over 10 years, 15 years younger than me. But like even young kids like Olivia and like the platforms have changed in the way to express yourself change.

And that always stuck with me what Syed said. And so I really have high hopes for Gutenberg. Yeah, again, now that I am in strong, like of it. 

David Bisset: So another thing Matt talked about which I’m actually a little bit surprised he did bring it up. I’m wondering who, by the way, Tuesday was when WordPress 5.9 was supposed to be out before they pushed it to January. So I talked to Anne McCarthy today. And first of all, I mentioned to her, like you mentioned, like 5.0 release when Gutenberg first came up, was rough around the edges. And she has assured me that the full site editor coming out in January with 5.9 is it may not have the entire kitchen sink, but it is very stable and doable. So I can’t wait to share that [00:16:00] interview with everybody, but Matt did call out acquisitions and I like, and I thought is this one of the things that if 5.9 was out, would he gone over more quickly? I don’t know, but they got on one slide. He started with 42 logos. And I thought there were more acquisitions than that.

I’ll have to go back to our Post Status tracker. But he had 42 logos up there and then he proceeded with, and I’m not a finance person. I’m just going to take his word for it. , his charts were taken from other people’s analysis. He gave proper credit to them, but he says the number of the deals that are happening in the tech space, he says there were 10,000 transactions in the first nine months of 2021 alone.

Which is up 24% over the last year. And then he brought out another chart that was called inflows to stocks. And I couldn’t even, I don’t even know what that was. I was, but all I know is there was a big bar at the end with the, with our year in it though. And I guess what he was trying to prove is that [00:17:00] don’t panic.

The acquisition space is not unique to the WordPress space right now. This is all going, you know, bonkers. And it’s not just WordPress. So I, you know, with you being a business person, how did you feel, do you feel that was properly delivered or delivered? Well, do you think he got the message.

Cory Miller: But the question I think about that is what prompted him to even do the slides, you know, and that’s the bigger question we always want to be thinking about here, you know, for our people is what is the founder co-founder of WordPress, the movement of open source project. Fill the need to say that. And we have some sense of the people that are like change sucks.

Nobody likes change, you know, and the fact of the matter, if you bullet down these acquisitions, why would anybody even care? It’s because it could potentially change something that I’m used to doing. And I’m not saying it’s good, right? Bad, wrong indifferent. I’m just saying, you know, I think change is [00:18:00] tough and I’ve heard some sentiment from the WordPress community about, I don’t even recognize it anymore and all this stuff.

And then I just go down, like, here’s my comparison for it is when I left.iThemes and started this new journey and Post Status . It was over a year before I became a partner and it was probably nine months before Brian and I even started talking about me becoming a partner. There was a big gap there and I was like, I didn’t know what I was going to do next and trying to figure that out.

But I did one simple thing, which was, I’m never going to say publicly privately, I’m leaving WordPress. I joked all the time. I’m going to be a WordPress user a blogger, which I was still am. But the important thing is I didn’t want to lose or even think all the amazing friendships I’ve made over 15 years being in the space.

To say, I’m saying goodbye to you. That’s not it. You heard Pippin Williamson when he left Sandhill dev that he was like, I’m not saying about a difference, but I need to step away from the project. [00:19:00] And I just go that sentiment to me comes back to this acquisition. Like things are changing, all that stuff.

I, I totally get that. I’m not trying to change your emotion. My way of thinking about it though, is the people are still here and that’s what matters. I’ve known you David for God. Has it been 10 years since 

I’ve known you for 10 years? 

David Bisset: Since the first conference in Arizona whose name is escaping my. I think that’s where we may have known.

We may have known each other prior to that. That’s the first time we met in person, I think officially, 

Cory Miller: but you know, the premise of all, this is like, the people are still here, for the most part. Now you’re always going to get people leaving the ecosystem, leaving it, you know, and coming in new people, coming in, who I met, one of our post-test members was when Stina and I’d love to hear her story.

She was there. Got invited to State of the Word we got to talk Post Status member and That’s a new person, I didn’t know, a year ago or two years ago, you [00:20:00] know? And so some may leave and you’re always going to have that in some, and cause there was even a picture. I think one of those slides, David of Kim. Oh, you know, and you think about people who have left and for instance, this world Kim back in the day but I saw her picture on one of those slides, you know, and it made me smile, but all that to say, WordPress is not about code it’s about the people.

And that is what I hang on. I’m not trying to change your heart, your feelings, but I’m just saying, if you think about it, go it’s about the people. No matter if it’s a team, if it’s outside of WordPress, whatever it is, it’s like, what matters are the people there? And are we growing together and all that?

So that’s the way I think about that, but that the merger is that it’s I it’s right for people to go and question what’s what the heck’s going on here. Things are changing on that space, but I still go the Michelle Frechette. Actually as a team member of people, some of my best friends and my former team and I themes now, is that interesting?

Well, I’ve known Michelle for a long time and now she’s a part of the scene. That’s cool. You know, that, that change happened where gives, [00:21:00] got by. And cellar rolled out and she moved over roles and now we get to work with her Post Status too. And again, I just call back to, if you’re worried about that, just go back to the people now there’s other worries, but I just, the heart of it is about people.

David Bisset: Yeah. And 

I also, I have also have a motto too, in terms of you don’t let the people that are leaving a community, distract you from who is coming into the community or who they should, or who should be invited into the community and vice versa. But don’t let one side distract you from who’s coming in versus who’s going out and that sort of thing.

And I think we’re doing a pretty good job with that. What happened after state of the word after it ended what happened. 

Cory Miller: Well, so there was about, I can’t remember how many, but at least 20 of us, I could probably adapt touch straight back to Post Status and we all kind of stayed at the same hotel and had a little, two day fun before the event and all that stuff.

And so a bunch of us went back to our hotel and we’re at the restaurant, the hotel restaurant bar, [00:22:00] and just kinda talking, you know, and I got to meet great people. I’ve just met in like Robert. Who runs OSTP training there? I got to see again for the third time, Robert Jacoby of cloud waves. The hero press couple Kate, and Tofor, I’m trying to think of othersAC Morse was there? Gravity forms. 

David Bisset: Aaron Campbell was there. 

Cory Miller: The Aaron and I laughed. He lives in Oklahoma. Like me, he’s literally an hour away. I bet it’d take me 45 minutes to be on his doorstep and vice versa. And we’re like, we had to laugh. So we’re sitting in New York city Soho, somewhere in the coffee shop. We’re like, isn’t it funny how we have to either go out of the country or to go across the states to see each other when we live like that close to each other.

And I love Aaron. He has such a great. For WordPress, all things WordPress and I love what he’s doing. 

David Bisset: Bob was there too. Of course, he traveled by train. He traveled by training the width of the Wu train clan. And it was, I think one of the best moments of the night was when he got up to ask the question and he had the simplest of questions, which was like, he [00:23:00] like, what’s up for WooCommerce or in the next year I traveled 2000 miles to ask this question.

And how did Matt respond 

Cory Miller: that’s all the bingo card and slack Post Status slack light up because Bob asked it, you know, finally he got the invoke. Woo. Yeah. I love Bob. Bob does and has been around for a long time too. And what I said about him personally at the vent was the one thing I admire about him is he has just consistently showed up.

And get work in this space and has mad respect from everybody because of it. So we sponsored his train trip out because we wanted to I mean, Bob is such a vital member of the WordPress community and then specifically WooCommerse. So Bob did all of that kind of community logistic, wrangling there, in addition to being like, and he was trying to record, he set up a studio in his room and I got to be with Robbie and Robert and Bob and

do the woo podcasts there. So, it was a great time for that on the note of getting people together. And Post Status [00:24:00] specifically we’re right now getting our in person. Camps together for Post Status Brian and intended to do it last year. And you know what, two years ago, and you know what happened, right.

But this year we’re putting some plans in place to get together in a small way to talk shop, to do life together as a community. I would love for everybody to be there next. December 22nd for, it’s going to 

David Bisset: say, as we wrap up here, what is the schedule look like for our post status members?

What do they, pay attention to?

Cory Miller: So we’re doing a year in, remember huddle. We’re going to be doing these next year, by the way, in which I’ll be talking about, but our member huddle you’re in next Wednesday, December 22nd, 11:00 AM central time. There’ll be zoom links in slack and all that.

And so. We’re going to do our, that member huddle. How-to it’s going to be one part like reflective review last year, thinking about next year. So look back, look forward, and then we’re going to do some fun stuff. I want you to meet the Post Status team. All the people that are doing all this crazy awesome [00:25:00] stuff behind the scenes that you don’t all see.

And then talk about some of the things we got in store for our Post Status community. A couple of times I’ve heard people say energy with post status and it is, and it ain’t just me, by the way, it’s people like David who had been here faithfully for years, Michelle Frechette, Courtney Robertson, Taleesha, you’ll get to meet her.

She’s our new director of operations and all kinds of people in between. I can’t wait to do that. And then laugh together. Our theme for the ongoing, I hesitate to say it’s going to be 2022, because I just want it to be forever is give. Together. 

David Bisset: What was that again?

Cory Miller: Give, grow together. It’s part of what I want to be our member mantra.

The thing we come to post to us and say, I’m here to give of myself my time, talent, treasure, all that stuff. Not true necessarily, but like give up myself in the spirit of open source to the commuity. To each other. Second is I’m here to grow. I want to grow myself. I want to grow my business.

I want to grow my career. We’ve got specific plans for the growth side and then together, it’s [00:26:00] just the thing that wraps everything together. It’s not I. It’s not you. It’s always, we at Post Status. It’s not just me. I happen to be on, you know, I had my face out there and stuff like that. But if this is truly a community and truly a team too, and I want us to just emphasize those three things, give in spirit of WordPress, same thing, just give to each other in the community business of WordPress second is to grow commit. You want to be here, let’s grow yourself, grow professionally, grow your business, whatever it is, come here to grow. And then to do it together do it all of us together. So, even our products, like, as you will know David is called and that’s a Portuguese word for probably mispronounced it, but together we’re together.

So it’s been a theme of my life even before clinical campaigns and the COVID time. But I really mean it next year as I’m going to do these things from in-person camps, how we do slack, how we do some of the cohorts, we’re going to be rolling out. And I hope you’ll show up next week and we can talk more about that and get your feet.

David Bisset: What was the date again?

Cory Miller: [00:27:00] December 22nd.

David Bisset: So December 22nd, Wednesday, are we going to see any sign of a state of post status with you in a suit? Is that something we can look forward to? 

Cory Miller: You’re probably not the second 

David Bisset: the people that are listening for the people that are listening at home.

Cory shook his head so quickly that I thought his neck was about to snap. 

Cory Miller: Yeah, I think we should do these types of things where as our leader of post, as getting in front listing talk, discuss, put things out there that help you learn and grow and all that with postdocs, for sure. And I always want to get to Canada.

So maybe to the first to the second one, the suit, you know, I mean, I’ve got two suits. I probably don’t fit currently. So. I think you’re more likely to see me in a Chewbacca outfit than a suit, but no shady. Anybody else? It’s just, 

David Bisset: no, you have to stand up. You gotta make yourself stand out with all these other state of the blah-blah-blah.

I mean, if Matt does a [00:28:00] suit, I think. Any, if you’re going to wear a hairy Chewbacca outfit, I think that’s a good countermove. But anyway, 

Cory Miller: Somebody is gonna remember this and come back and say, Cory memory, you say you do that. 

David Bisset: Oh, people will remember it. I might have a little bit of a night terror about it. I’ve got a thing against Wookiees. But other than that, I think it’s a fantastic idea. Well, it sounds like you had a blast and it was a blast watching. I see you in some of the photos. Sometimes you’re in the background You’re in the background photo bombing. It’s fantastic. I’m glad that this happened and I’m glad to see Matt so open.

Maybe it was because it was a smaller venue or it was the fact that there wasn’t a word campy west surrounding Matt. You know how draining that is even to, just to be at a work camp us and then, and that WordCamp us with a talk in front of a thousand, 2000 people, it would look like a really nice event with a ton of energy, but.

Personable intimate. And I’m glad you all in this, in the few got to experience that. And I, of course, next year though, [00:29:00] or next time this happens, hopefully it will be under different circumstances and we’ll have more people. In fact, think he said, if all goes well, San Diego is going to be the work camp spot for 20, 22.

Have you ever been to Sandy? Oh, really? I’ve never been. So it’ll be interesting for me. Was there anything else that you wanted to share? I think we, it was good seeing you. It was good seeing you. I’m glad you’re home safe. And then it sounded like they do all the safety precautions and everything, which was fantastic.

I’m glad they did that. And it was good to see Josepha and the others there as well representing so great. So next time. Let’s it sounds like we’re going to talk about wrapping up our thoughts about the year with the biggest news stories that you think Corey or the most influential to you personally.

And we’ve asked the same question to our post status members, this awesome service zip message. I want to say zap message, but that sounds more painful. Zip message. It’s zip message. And we’re encouraging people [00:30:00] to go in there and just leave a brief clip about what story to them was the most influential for WordPress this year.

And to them personally, and maybe by the time we talk next time, we will have a couple of us to talk about and share our own as well.

Cory Miller: Thanks, david. And thanks everybody.